Have you ever wondered what it's like to walk in the shoes of a neurodistinct person? My guest today, Will Wheeler, lives with dyslexia and ADHD and he is here to tell us about his journey - from his childhood struggles to his quest for personal change, and how he turned his life around to become a champion for neurodiverse individuals. His tale is filled with resilience and reinvention.
In a world that often misunderstands neurodiversity, Will's story is a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the power of self-reflection. He and myself, a fellow neurodivergent person, share our experiences growing up in the education system with learning difficulties, emphasizing the power of emotional intelligence in understanding and supporting neurodiversity.
Today, Will is using his experiences to reshape the educational landscape for neurodiverse people. He supports neurodiversity through the Neurodiversity Academy, aimed at helping neurodiverse individuals excel in international education. His tale is indeed riveting and will leave you with a newfound understanding and appreciation for neurodiversity. As we draw our conversation to a close, you'll be left with an awe for the strength that lies in embracing our unique traits. So, sit back, tune in, and prepare to be inspired.
Connect with Will
Website - https://www.neurodiversityacademy.com/
Podcast - https://www.openheartedsociety.com/
0:09 Neurodiverse Journey
12:16 Challenges in School and Self-Discovery
25:38 Struggles With School, Career, and Relationships
32:37 Career Progression and Decision to Travel
36:57 Seeking Change Through Travel and Self-Reflection
48:10 Building a New Life, Overcoming Challenges
56:40 Overcoming Addiction and Pivoting Careers
1:10:03
Are you loving this show? I’d be so grateful if you like, rate, review and share with a friend!
Catch the episode on Youtube to see photos and videos related to this story.
Want to spend more time with me? Join me in my 1:1 Coaching Container https://www.coachedbyjess.com/coaching
Explore more wellness conversations with me over on instagram @coached.byjess
Do you have a story that you would like to share on The Pivot Point? Apply now https://forms.gle/hxfmFb5RNJ7VBKQQ9
Have you ever wondered what it's like to walk in the shoes of a neurodistinct person? My guest today, Will Wheeler, lives with dyslexia and ADHD and he is here to tell us about his journey - from his childhood struggles to his quest for personal change, and how he turned his life around to become a champion for neurodiverse individuals. His tale is filled with resilience and reinvention.
In a world that often misunderstands neurodiversity, Will's story is a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the power of self-reflection. He and myself, a fellow neurodivergent person, share our experiences growing up in the education system with learning difficulties, emphasizing the power of emotional intelligence in understanding and supporting neurodiversity.
Today, Will is using his experiences to reshape the educational landscape for neurodiverse people. He supports neurodiversity through the Neurodiversity Academy, aimed at helping neurodiverse individuals excel in international education. His tale is indeed riveting and will leave you with a newfound understanding and appreciation for neurodiversity. As we draw our conversation to a close, you'll be left with an awe for the strength that lies in embracing our unique traits. So, sit back, tune in, and prepare to be inspired.
Connect with Will
Website - https://www.neurodiversityacademy.com/
Podcast - https://www.openheartedsociety.com/
0:09 Neurodiverse Journey
12:16 Challenges in School and Self-Discovery
25:38 Struggles With School, Career, and Relationships
32:37 Career Progression and Decision to Travel
36:57 Seeking Change Through Travel and Self-Reflection
48:10 Building a New Life, Overcoming Challenges
56:40 Overcoming Addiction and Pivoting Careers
1:10:03
Are you loving this show? I’d be so grateful if you like, rate, review and share with a friend!
Catch the episode on Youtube to see photos and videos related to this story.
Want to spend more time with me? Join me in my 1:1 Coaching Container https://www.coachedbyjess.com/coaching
Explore more wellness conversations with me over on instagram @coached.byjess
Do you have a story that you would like to share on The Pivot Point? Apply now https://forms.gle/hxfmFb5RNJ7VBKQQ9
Welcome to the Pivot Point stories of courage, resilience and reinvention. I'm your host, jessica McGahn, coach, producer and creative, whose mission is to normalize the human experience, ignite the soul and move you from feeling limited to limitless. Connect us and my hope is that within this series, you will find at least one story that resonates with you on a deeply personal level, one that speaks to your soul or your current situation, that will motivate you to keep moving forward, inspire you to make bold, brave choices in your own life and help you feel less alone in the process. Today's episode is a bit longer than normal, but for good reason. In this episode, my guest, will Wheeler, takes us through his childhood as he struggles to navigate an educational system with dyslexia and undiagnosed ADHD. There was still so much unknown about neurodiversity at the time and ultimately, will ended up failing school. Will thought he was destined for a life of nothing and used drugs and alcohol to cover up and cope with his depression and anxiety for the best part of 15 years, until the combination of pivotal moments led him to his purpose. This story is one about rewriting old narratives, self-discovery, stigma, addiction and how one man, will, is now able to use his experience and healing, to help change the education system for current and future neurodiverse people.
Speaker 2:Will Wheeler is a proud neurodistinct person with dyslexia and ADHD who has worked with people and organizations all over the world. Will is the founder of Neurodiverse Academy and the host of the Open Hearted podcast. Will works closely with other community leaders to help promote and encourage organizations to develop neuroinclusive working environments. This includes areas like recruitment, career progression, leadership, training and education. Will's goal is to talk more openly about his experience in life and help others to feel more comfortable opening up about theirs, which is exactly what I hope to achieve with this podcast. So if you are neurodiverse or love someone who is, this episode is for you. So without further ado, let's dive in. Will, I am so excited to have you on this episode of the Pivot Point. When I read your application, I connected so deeply to it. As a neurodivergent person myself, with learning difficulties, navigating the educational system was a fucking nightmare for me and I think we both relate in some of the things that happened after your pivotal moment. But I don't want to give it away. But welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, thanks so much for having me. And I think it's so amazing, when you do meet people similar to you and myself, you know, who are both neurodivergent, how many things we do have in common, and it's almost like, yeah, we live on the other side of the world to each other, but we can relate to so many things. But no, look, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I don't think I've ever met someone who who I felt like, could understand what it was like for me in school or what I felt like to be treated differently because my brain looked differently. So I am really excited to hear more about your journey, and you're joining us from Australia, so where in Australia are you?
Speaker 1:So well, it's funny because I actually say for anyone who knows anything about Australia, I come from a place called Brisbane, which is sort of in a state called Queensland, but I actually live in Sydney. So I moved to Sydney about seven years ago just for business and all of that type of stuff. So I'm originally from Brisbane but I live in Sydney.
Speaker 2:Sydney is definitely like the business place. I lived in Melbourne for about 10 months.
Speaker 1:Oh, did you really? What part of Melbourne?
Speaker 2:I kind of moved around. I think I was in Richmond for a little bit.
Speaker 1:Richmond dad. Yeah, very, very. I think it's quite a classy area, richmond.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I also live somewhere else and I it's been so long ago I can't remember the name, but I lived with a beautiful family. I just loved Melbourne. It's so artistic, Everyone was so nice. I honestly kind of regret ever leaving Australia. I think that country really knows what they're doing, honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, it's for us, it's home and I suppose I really didn't and I'm not trying to like sound like hey, look, I come from the best country in the world. But until you start traveling and doing all that, you really do start to go. Oh, my God, this isn't so bad, you know.
Speaker 2:Massively, 100%. I felt the same way as a traveler coming back to Toronto. I was like you know what? I know a lot of people are going to disagree when I say this, but like I love Toronto, I do except for the prices. But anyways, I feel like you have a lot to share, so let's just dive on in, and maybe you could just start us off by painting us a little bit of a picture of what growing up was like for you, and kind of how you existed in this world before your pivotal moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, like we were speaking about prior to coming onto the podcast here, I think that and especially and I'm sure you can relate to this is that I think for me, especially as a young kid, not this is and I'm talking about before going to school. You know you are, I was so creative and you know it was, it was great. You know I'd be playing dress ups or you know I'd be, you know, playing football or even like having tea parties with the girls and and all of that type of stuff. I was very creative and I really, you know it was fantastic. And I think the hardest thing was was, you know, starting school. And you know I didn't really know too much about school at the time. I remember my mother was very excited about me starting school and, you know, getting a picture, I don't know. In Canada, do you guys wear uniforms to school?
Speaker 2:It depends. If you go to a Catholic, like a religious school, you'll wear a uniform. But, if you don't go to a Catholic school, you can wear whatever you want.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so in Australia all schools wear uniforms. Okay, so it's like yeah, so it's a big thing to sort of like get a picture of your kids in a uniform on their first day of school, type of thing.
Speaker 1:So I did all of that, got to school, all of that. And then, you know, I, you know, to tell the truth, I remember it like it was, like it was yesterday. I was so nervous I didn't know what was going on. I had no idea what was going on. Got into school and then, you know, my mom left me. All that I'm thinking, okay, you know, this is probably just like every you know, just playing and all that.
Speaker 1:And you know, after the months went on, type of thing, I really started to realize that, hang on, I'm not like everyone else. For starters, I was writing. I write with my left hand. Everyone else was writing with their right hand, so that was a big thing. I didn't even realize that at the time because it was just normal to me. I remember it took me forever to be able to learn how to spell my name properly. I remember my teacher giving some tracing thing to my mother and I just constantly trace my name, copy it for hours, just until I got my name right. And I remember, you know, things happening where I just didn't get it. And back in those days we're talking about the 80s, now probably late 80s and you know I wasn't getting them my teachers would just be breathing down my neck. I remember building up like tears all of this type of stuff is a little kid because you're thinking what?
Speaker 1:I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm getting in trouble. And I think that was a big point of where you start to go, hang on. What's wrong here you start and I never realized at the time, but I think I was really struggling with anxiety at that point as a young kid, because you don't know what anxiety is at that time. And then you, you just I don't know, because you're afraid you're going to get in trouble every day. I was afraid to go home and tell mom and dad that I got in trouble because I was going to get in trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah exactly Right.
Speaker 1:And so you know, and I think, as I sort of progressed in, so we have. We have what they call primary school here. I don't know what you call it over in Canada.
Speaker 2:I think that's what we call it here. Like J.
Speaker 1:K. Okay yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, as I progressed through the same thing we just continually keep happening in school. So you know, I go to a point where, when you've constantly got teachers breathing down your throat or breathing down your neck sorry you you start to get sick of it. So I started to become that rebellious kid I would tell the teachers you know, fuck off or you know, yeah, I'd do all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Because the thing is you've got to remember, like I suppose you're a breaking point. You know you don't have your parents to rely on because your parents well, it wasn't that my parents were bad or anything, it was more, my parents were feeding, feeding off what my teachers were telling them and they were telling them I was a bad kid, I wasn't putting any effort into class, all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there was much information or education around ADD, adhd, autism, like any of that stuff at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, well, this was the thing. So in grade four I got diagnosed with dyslexia and it's like okay, and it was really strange, because when I got diagnosed with dyslexia it was diagnosed I was, it was. So what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 1:It was identified that I have an extremely high IQ, and so what they class that, as is now, they never classes anything back in the day. So I'm what they classes twice exceptional or two week. So what I am? I'm very, extremely intelligent. But then I'm on the other end of the scale where I struggle with certain things and stuff like that. So this is where, being neurodivergent, it doesn't actually affect IQ. Do you know what I mean? So if we look at how you're autistic or you're this and ride that person off as a dummy, that's the wrong way to go about things, because this could be an extremely intelligent person here and we're just writing them off type of thing. And I think you and I sort of had this conversation briefly before where we were speaking about you know. You said you felt like oh, I was treated like I was stupid.
Speaker 2:I had teachers. Literally I had a science teacher when I went into high school and I had been diagnosed already with ADD and learning difficulties. So my, I can't remember the extent of them, but the one that I really remember that I struggle with the most is I have trouble processing information. It takes me about double the time sometimes triple the time as a normal person to process and understand questions or answers. Sometimes I have to read things anyways.
Speaker 2:And so this was on my school record and when I went into I really wanted to go to university like so bad, I wanted the option. But my learning disability sheet said I should take all college classes because academic classes would be too hard. But I was like, fuck that you're not telling I'm going to university and I'm going to, I will work hard. And when I went into that academic science class the first day of class the teacher came up to me and was like you need to switch classes. You're like, basically I don't remember the words, but I remember hearing you're too stupid to be in this class and like having like your teachers like teachers should be supportive and encouraging you're there to learn. Why are any teachers telling any child what they can and cannot do what they're capable of Like. No, I just don't agree with it.
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny you say that because and this isn't all teachers but yeah, yeah, because. I had some or I teachers sometimes and I did really well with you, know you know and I really take my hat off to those people and really goes to show that you know, if you have a good teacher, it's not necessarily the person.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of the time it's a teacher and the thing that I found in school was that the biggest bullies in school actually weren't like other kids. So some of them were. It was actually some of the teachers. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Because they and here's an example right here, right? So if you're in class and I go, and this would quite happen a lot, oh, jessica, you can't, you're an idiot, you'll never get, you'll never get anywhere in life In front of all these kids, right, when you get into the playground, those kids are then going to go. Oh, you're just an idiot. That's because miss such and such said you were. Do you know what I mean? And that passes it on type of thing.
Speaker 1:And this is actually a big thing that. You know, what I sort of faced was like. I said I got diagnosed in grade four and look, I didn't even know I'm. So I'm ADHD as well. I didn't even know I was ADHD until like last year.
Speaker 1:And yeah, yeah yeah, and I only got. It only got discovered because a good friend of mine she is like a doctor in neurodiversity. She was reading my book and she's like hey will reading your book. It sounds like you're ADHD. Come into my office, let's get you tested. And yeah, it came back 100%. That I'm like like very high on the hyperactivity side of ADHD and all of this stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy, but but this is the thing, right. So in school, you know, as a young kid you're getting the teachers breathing down your down your neck. You've got them telling your parents that you're not going to do. You know you're struggling or disruption in class. The kids in class then hear that you're not that smart, so they treat you like you're an idiot. And then you're sort of told me, if you don't do well in school, you're never going to be able to do good in life. You know, and that was one of the killers for me, you know, and I think for me, my, you know, my self esteem was just very low.
Speaker 2:I was very rebellious and I just got to a point where I was just like man, I don't care about school if I have to and, you know, leaving school and if I'm sort of jumping ahead of a few things now it really, you know, you just have no ambitions for such a long time, but sort of well, even like to be receiving those kinds of messages, and like when you're you got to go to school every day, like you're forced back into this environment that you don't feel safe in. Or at least I'll speak for myself. I did not feel safe at school. I felt bullied, I felt put down, I didn't feel smart enough to be there, like because that's what the messages that I was receiving. Like I almost dropped out of school when I was in high school, like I.
Speaker 2:Everything just felt so hard and it's so debilitating at that point in your life because you don't. It's not like when you're an adult, you have way more freedoms. I can leave a workplace, I can separate myself, I know more about my mindset now, I can take care of myself. But as a kid you are really susceptible to what people are saying to you. At that time you believe them because you don't know who you are at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, they're supposed to be the people you look up to. So you know when you're being fed that not by just one teacher, but from all teachers, it's. You believe it. And if you're not doing well, you start to go okay well, because you know, for people who don't know what it's like to be dyslexic or have a learning disability or whatever, you can try like, say, say, and this is the thing. Well, I've sort of identified as that. I'm a brilliant learner. I just learned differently to how other people learn.
Speaker 2:If that makes sense, right? Yes, 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the thing is, if I'm trying to learn something, like everyone else is, I'll struggle with that big time, right, and a lot of the time that's how everything is done, that's what you're getting based, that's what you're getting graded on, right, right. So it becomes, you know, you just become, you have no confidence, you think you can't really do anything and you've really got no hope, because you think, okay, well, every time I tried and this is what I was getting outside, even I used to find, even when I would try, I'd go and study for days and then I'd come back and still get a shit mark, as shit a mark, as if I didn't study, and it's like what the hell's wrong with me?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then you see those other people in class who don't have to study and they just ace the test. It's just like it's so easy for them. And you're like oh, what is wrong with me? That's really the message, At least I kept saying to myself what's wrong with me?
Speaker 1:And that's a horrible message to be telling yourself at such an impressionable age.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, totally, totally, totally. And this is the thing I think for me. You know, growing up very young there, you know I was I was very confused. I was very confused about who I was. You know I, you know I grew up in a neighborhood where there was just I don't know. I grew up in a nice sort of neighborhood but there was just weird people and when I look at it now there was just like some weird people around type of thing. So I hadn't really spoken about this much. But you know, when I was around that primary school age, I got sexually abused by like some younger I'm not younger guys, some older guys in my neighborhood. That would just be weird you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:But that was the thing it. You know, I had that going on. I had being bullied by the teachers and failing school going on, and it was just a recipe for disaster as I got older, Cause once I got into high school. Now here in Australia we just go into high school. We don't have like junior high, but yeah, so you know, getting into high school, right I was, my parents sent me to a private school. So it was like you know, there's very high expectations in private schools because technically they're a business, right, they want to show that people who come to those schools are getting good marks because of that on them if they get bad marks. So me struggling.
Speaker 1:That school was just annihilating me. And once again, you know, I started becoming really more rebellious, sorry, and you know that sort of really that just kept on going on. Hey, if you don't do well in school, you're never going to get anywhere. And I got to a point where I'm like you know what, I've had enough of this. And this is the thing by the end of high school, you are just stuffed. You're just what's the way I'm looking for? Like fatigued fatigued from getting all of this, you know, and it just wasn't easy at all. So, you know, I started hanging around with the wrong crowd. I got into. You know, I was 18 before I finished school. We can drink when you're 18 here in Australia. I don't know if it's the same in Canada 19 for us, oh, 19.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool.
Speaker 1:So I was still in high school when I was legally out of the drink, so I'd go night clubbing some, you know, during school days and then I started, you know, getting introduced to different types of drugs and I remember like starting off with weed. And you know, I remember when I first started smoking weed and everything. And look, don't get me wrong, I think weed. Now when I look at weed it can have some very good benefits when used correctly. But like cause, I'm pretty sure it's legal over in Canada right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is yeah yeah, and honestly I would like to see it legal here. But when used correctly, there can be some very good positives to it. Oh yeah, absolutely, I wasn't using it in a positive way you know you were using it to escape, I'm sure, and it was, I remember, like smoking up straight after school or sometimes before school, all of that type of stuff, and just thinking, whoa, this gets me away from everything that's bothering me. It was like a wave just came through my body and I didn't have to feel that pain anymore, right.
Speaker 2:I am so glad that I didn't have access to weed when I was in high school, because I would have 100,000% done the exact same thing.
Speaker 1:I wanted to escape.
Speaker 2:So bad. I was sneaking alcohol into school. I was hanging out with the wrong crowd. I was just so unhappy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I loved marijuana. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And this was the thing. And I think what happens is, when you are so unhappy and you have this escape, you need more right, you need to be away from that more. But the problem is what I started to find, especially when you're using drugs, because what I found was I started using that, but then I started hanging around with different people who would then introduce me to different, more harder type of drugs, and then that was my lifestyle. I was hanging around people that it was always about like I was working and but you know, we'll be using a whole bunch of stuff on the weekends. And this is the thing. People don't realize that they're addicted if, like their whole, some people think, oh man, I've got a full-time job, I'm not addicted to drugs. But if you're having to use Friday, saturday, sunday morning and then go to work again and then you're waiting to get over and then do all that again because you can't wait to do it again, you're addicted, my man.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's a problem. It's a problem.
Speaker 2:Were you addicted? Would you? Were you addicted at that time?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, totally, totally I would constantly be smoking weed all the time. The weekends consisted of Friday night. Well, we'd start drinking on Thursdays. We had something called like Beer Thursday. I don't know why we had Beer Thursday, because we'd still go to work on Friday, be hung over hours, feeling like shit, get back and then, and this was the thing, it was just about hanging out with people who, would you know, it would be all that type of shit. We'd just be talking about drugs, what drugs can we get on? This was great, you know, and I don't know. It was just frustrating. But, like I said, what we were getting to was you know, we start hanging around certain types of people and that's your life. Those are those types of people, right? The funniest thing was I was starting to progress slowly in my career. Some really great things started to happen once I left school.
Speaker 2:What career did you go into right out of school?
Speaker 1:Oh, so I failed school, so it wasn't you failed. Oh, yeah, yeah, totally I got the lowest grade of the school. So and it was weird I didn't tell anyone that I got that grade, but the whole school knew and it was like so embarrassing because I don't know it was just like people, because everyone would talk about their grades they got and you know it was so embarrassing.
Speaker 1:People would be like man, everyone said you got this. I'm like, how do people know that? Which is sort of cool now, because I can use it to go. Well, I failed this and there's a lot of people I did go to school with where I'm killing it over them now, you know. So it sort of works as well.
Speaker 2:I wanna make two points of that too, because, like one, we know that you're a highly intelligent person and so for you to be failing so much, so drastically, like it, just like my heart hurts, just wishing that there had been patients with these teachers to support you in the way that you needed to in order to be successful.
Speaker 2:And then the second thing is that I believe that a lot of neurodivergent people are highly creative individuals, and I know for me, what really landed much later and made me feel better is like I felt especially stupid because I couldn't do the math and the science and the history, but my skills where I was really smart was in drama class. When it came to emotions, I was highly emotional intelligent. I wasn't book smart and I was made to feel like I would never succeed. And I was so dumb because I couldn't do those things and no one taught me that emotional intelligence could be just as, if not more, valuable and that my creative side was not a waste of time but something that could take me into a career that I love, like that just wasn't something that was brought to our attention.
Speaker 1:And you know what? It's funny to say that because I actually own a company called Neurodiversity Academy, which our goal is to actually connect people with colleges and universities. That actually will help them to so say, if you didn't do well in school, rather than go dude, that's it, mate, you failed school, You've got no hope. We want to go, hang on, hang on, hang on. Have you ever thought of this route? Let's take you on this route. You might have to do this, you might have to do this, but this will then allow you to get into this.
Speaker 1:So once I finished school, I failed school and I did a good job working in a warehouse, loading and unloading containers, driving a forklift, but what I found was, even in then I became, because I'm so intelligent, I was able to do things and refine things and became very efficient. Now, when warehousing and logistics, that's what it's all about, because time and efficiency means money. So I was able to progress really quick and ended up becoming like the manager of this huge warehouse by the age of 21. Like this real kid, it was hard because I was doing the job of like a 40-something year old, so I had a lot of pressure on me and there was probably too much pressure at that time and the hardest thing was I actually still had a lot of big drug and alcohol problems.
Speaker 1:So I was still smoking weed sometimes, I was still taking ecstasy and other stuff as well and drinking a lot on the weekends and coming in focus, work, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would just be able to do it and people would be like man because, to tell you the truth, when I used to hit the pierce or that's what we call alcohol in Australia pierce right when I would drink alcohol, I was wild. I was like this party animal and people are like dude. It blows me away how wild you are. And then you can come in and do this. You know what I mean and I'm like and I just think I was cool.
Speaker 1:I'd be like, yeah, you know I can do anything and I think you know I'd been dating a lot of girls and all that. But then I was in like a full serious relationship then and it was interesting with this person that I was dating, then my ex-girlfriend, because she was a really, when I first met, a really nice person, all of this type of stuff. But you know she was very big into the drugs and partying and all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:So you were feeding each other's fire here.
Speaker 1:Pretty much, pretty much. And it became, you know, she wouldn't, she would, I don't know she didn't like she wanted to. She wanted to excel, she wanted me to excel in my career, but she still wanted to party and all that type of stuff, right, and you know, she probably had better grades than me and all that and was able to get some better jobs than me. And a lot of the time I'd be get offered all these fantastic jobs on big money and she'd be like I'd never get to see you so I wouldn't take those jobs. So a lot of the time I was sort of being held back and sort of pushing away opportunities type of thing. And you know, and I won't go too much into it, but, as, say, a young relationship goes, you know, just really didn't work, all that type of stuff. And I think sometimes when you're in a break, when you break up with someone, some people can say some pretty nasty stuff and I think we're talking about like pivotal points type of thing.
Speaker 1:You know. You know she said to me she's like look, you're never going to change, you're always going to be this party animal and all this type of stuff. You're never going to change, you're just always going to be the same. And you know, taking that on it actually reminded me a lot of high school and school being told that, look, you're always just going to be the same, you're never going to get anywhere in your life, all that type of stuff. And it was like boom, you know, it was like it hit you hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. And I can tell you what I actually, you know, really hit the drugs and alcohol even harder at that point because it's just like shit I am that you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Let's explore this a little bit, because this is your pivotal moment. This is life has been hard, school has been hard. You're deep into drugs and alcohol. You're partying, you're escaping from reality, so to speak, because of your thoughts about yourself, your self-worth and the messages you feel you're receiving, and this moment and hurt you guys ending your relationship and her telling you that you're afraid of change just hits you like a ton of bricks. And now you're saying you know it hit you so hard that you wanted to escape even deeper into those drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:So what really landed for you, like, what did you hear in that moment when she said those words to you?
Speaker 1:To tell you the truth, when I think about it. It was a while ago now. It was sort of like shit, I am this. Do you know what I mean? I am this, I'm you know. She was starting to progress in her career. Her career was very big. I'm not like to her. It was very big.
Speaker 1:She'd got this new job and I think the thing was she was getting influenced by a lot of people from her work to say, look, this guy's an idiot, he's not any good for you, all of that type of stuff. And really it was the other way around, because I'm not trying to sound like negative or anything, but you know, because what I sort of found was was that I would be doing all this stuff and people would be coming up to me and they're like dude, it blows me away that someone your age is doing the job that you're doing. You said you've got this thing running like clockwork and I'm talking about this warehouse I was running at the time and they're like you're only 21. When I was 21, I would never have been doing this type of stuff.
Speaker 2:So you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was sort of, you know, I started, you know, at first I was sort of like, yeah, I'm an idiot, you know, I had in my head down type of thing just sort of pressed all that. But then I would sort of stop and think and I'd take that stuff in and go hang on. I actually am pretty good at what I do, you know.
Speaker 2:I've got all-. You started to self reflect a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did, I did. I actually remember like sitting like looking at views of something and just thinking about stuff going, you know, because you go through depressing like should I just end this? You know I'm sick of it. You know what I mean. All of that.
Speaker 1:And you're like, hang on, these people are telling me this I must be pretty good at what I do. And I'm like you know, and at that point in my job, I'd been working at that same job for seven years, I hated it, right. And I'm just like you know what? I need a change. I hate my job. You know, this is a prime time to really make a big difference. I didn't know what the hell to do and I went. You know what stuff this? I think this is a perfect time to travel, you know, and this was where I went all right, I'm gonna travel. I don't know, I have hardly any money at the moment because I was partying all the time, so- it's kind of like oh, you don't think I can change, watch me, I'm going to travel the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah well that's what it was, sort of thing. I was sort of like you know what I need to find myself again. Because when I was sort of you know and I sort of, I suppose, thought you know, people do like me in that, but I wanted to learn more about who I was. So I wanted to go and travel somewhere where no one would know who I was and then see how people would adapt to me, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You know so oh where did you I just Well, okay wait, oh so ESPE naught. Firstly, what was the response from the other people around you, like your family and your friends, when you're like I'm going to quit this job that I've excelled in and I'm going to go travel? What was the response you got?
Speaker 1:Well, at first I'm almost talking to my mother about it and she was like supportive of it. But I could see that she didn't want me to leave because up until that point I had really relied heavily on my parents. And this is quite common with a lot of neurodistinct people not all but say, if I at that point I wasn't doing really good with handling money, now I'm brilliant at it. So I would always be going to mum and say, hey, look, I need some borrow some money. Or hey, look, I need to do this, this, this. Hey, mum, are you able to call up the insurance company? Or hey, mum, can you help me pay this bill? I would rely way too much on them and I knew that.
Speaker 2:So she's probably like how are you going to survive out in all these countries without us, Pretty much?
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. And that was where I was like I want to go over there and because I would often hear about how people had traveled and they changed them, and I was like, okay, maybe I need this type of thing. So that was that. And I remember telling my friend and this was the thing I was hanging and I knew that the people I was it was hard to sort of explain everyone I used to hang out with were really lovely people, but I could see that they were self-destructive you know, what I mean, and that became a lot more clear as after this period, because a lot of them are dead now because of certain things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But at the time it's party, party, party and you think everyone's your friend. But it's not like that at all. But yeah, so I ended up packing up all my stuff, selling everything moving overseas.
Speaker 2:Where'd you go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I actually just moved to the UK because Australia has, like I'm pretty sure Canada does as well.
Speaker 2:We're under the Queens, we're under the Queens, yeah, yeah. So you get like a working holiday visa, no problem, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I had that for two years and went over there and knew nobody and yeah it was. It was wild, like, don't get me wrong, I was still partying hardcore. But the one big thing and this was probably another pivotal moment too when I was over there I remember I would party. You know, I was a party member because I'd partied so hardcore back home.
Speaker 2:It was sort of like I had a really long resume of like Listen, I'm a traveler myself and the two best partiers I've met are Aussies and the Bretts.
Speaker 1:So you just went to a whole other party country. Yeah, we can, we can.
Speaker 2:We've got a big drinking culture here but that's not a, that's not a good thing, that's not a good thing, but like so, I fitted in pretty well there.
Speaker 1:So what I found was I started to find that the people that I was hanging out with in Australia by me sorry, I was starting to attract those same people in a whole, completely different country, because my goal was to go over there, learn about a lot about myself, really gain that confidence, and then come back and then really hit my career and blow it up like a thing Right.
Speaker 1:But I remember being over there and then getting to a point where I'm like everyone really loved hanging out with me and thought I was cool and that, but they would. I was attracting that same people coming to me to school and drugs. People were coming to me because I would party with them and all of that same stuff back in Australia and I was just like I remember sitting there one time just watching TV and the hostel I was living in, thinking man, I'm just hanging out with the same people, what are you going to?
Speaker 2:do when you get home.
Speaker 1:Well, what do you want to do? And I'm thinking I don't know what the hell I want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's another download like an aha moment, Sort.
Speaker 1:Of sort of sort of. And then it was like okay, and then I remember I got to a point where it was very difficult to get jobs because the recession had kicked in. This was around 2009 or 2008, 2009, 2009 then. So the recession had kicked in in the UK, so it was really hard to get any type of work. So I got to a point where I was like I called up my parents and said, look, I think I'm going to come home, maybe do a little bit of work and then come back over.
Speaker 1:And mum and dad's like look, we've had some calls from some people while you've been away. You know, there's, there's, there's this company that. So we have like what they call like training companies that train staff and say management, leadership, all these different things. And they're like look, they're looking for like a warehouse trainer in management and logistics. And they're like they've seen your resume and they're really keen to talk with you. They said the job would involve like traveling all around Australia and presenting presentations to different clients and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, gee, I never thought of doing that in in Emma, so in a way I would have to come back and get some extra education, which they would have paid for and everything not my parents but this company and I would have sort of been a teacher type of thing. So I came back, got these qualifications so I was sort of it's hard to explain because they call I'm not a teacher, but I'm a they, I'm what they call like a trainer and assessor, so I can like assess people in certain workplaces, stuff like that. So I was doing a lot of warehousing management for people who run warehouses in that. Sorry, you go.
Speaker 2:No, no, that's okay, I don't want to interrupt you, but I I'm just wondering, because what you just said, too, was that you had this aha moment, sitting in this hostel looking around, feeling like you haven't changed enough. When you got this phone call from your parents saying that they you have this option to you know move up in this company and have a traveling job, did you view it as a possibility of this? Is your chance to step into the version of your self that you wanted to?
Speaker 1:see yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely Cause it was. It was big money compared to what used to be on, and I feel like we all are like a traveling job.
Speaker 2:Ooh, how fancy, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But to tell the truth, after years of traveling you get to a point where you're like stuff this you know, at the time it was cool.
Speaker 1:But, to tell the truth, it was cool for a little while because you do get to see the country you know and that was cool. But yeah, it was. It was like holy crap, man, this is the next step. I remember I was like sort of seeing this girl, like when I was overseas and she lived in Melbourne actually, and it was sort of like. When we came back it was sort of like and this probably sounds really bad, but like it was sort of like our relationship sort of just faded away because I had to take this opportunity with my career rather than, you know, be with this girl, because it was like, do I give this up or do you know? And it sort of worked out that we just weren't made for each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We were just having fun while we were traveling, that I had to take that you know, and that was where a lot of things started to change.
Speaker 1:But the problem was I was still hanging out with a lot of the people that I was hanging out with prior to moving overseas. So once again, my career was starting to progress. I was doing some great things, but I was still around drugs and alcohol and all this type of stuff and it really started to hold me back and people were like man, you're a. I was starting to win awards. I was starting to win like big industry awards and getting up and presenting in front of like all of these high end people and people like man, you're a nutter, how the hell can you do all this stuff and then still go out and hit the pierce and all that? And that was almost an aha moment where I was like man. Imagine if I gave away all of that stuff and just focused on my career. I wonder how much that would then explode then.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I was kind of curious about. I was like, and when you're hearing these things, was it kind of like I know a lot of people who have drug and alcohol addictions have this sense of I am my best self when I'm drinking or smoking because I have social anxiety or whatever it may be. Was it ever like a badge of honor of like yeah, this is, this, is the best version of me, I can do this, or is it like what I'm thinking you're getting to of like I don't want to be that person. I want to be.
Speaker 2:I feel like this might be holding me back.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally I was. I was getting to a point where when you've been drinking for a long time, you need to drink more to reach that feeling right, yes, or being drunk, or being happy, right. And I was getting to a point where I would be getting black out drunk, right. Like. I go to a lot of networking events now where there's what there's open bar tabs, all of that. Now, if I had been going to those networking events back when I had those those addiction problems, it would have killed my career. Now I can go to these things and I'm very sound minded and all that type of stuff. But yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:I didn't like that person and I was getting to a point where I didn't like the people I was hanging around. I was because, like, when you hang around people who take a lot of drugs and alcohol, they tend to invite other people in who you might not even like, but the only reason you're hanging around them is because they can score. Do you know what I mean? And it's like this person is an idiot. Why am I even hanging out with this person? I just got to a point where I was like no stuff, this you know.
Speaker 1:There was almost another aha moment where you know where I got to this point, where, especially when I wanted to start building the company that I'm building today, that you know, I'm like, okay, I really need to. If I'm going to build something, I need to be reputable, I need to be what. It's sort of weird when you're building a business because it's you get a lot of different information as well. But, like, I started to go to events where there'd be big business people talking about how they became what they became, and a lot of them were people just like me. They failed school, they had big drug and alcohol problems and they're like, if you're going to do this, you cannot be around people who want to party and booze on all the time. And I remember I went back to where I was living and you know hearing that it's so motivational. You're like that's what I need. This is what's going to help me get to that next level, right?
Speaker 2:It sounds like you were already getting there too in your brand, Like there was already a part of your mind that was going ooh, I feel like this change needs to come is what I'm hearing. Let me know if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1:Well. Well, it's sort of you're sort of right, because what I found was when I started to get that training job where I was flying everywhere or that I was really excelling. The only problem was I was still struggling with a lot of my neurodivergent traits.
Speaker 2:So I was really struggling with well.
Speaker 1:So I was really struggling with organizing, you know so, sometimes with ADHD, you can be very unorganized. I'm very organized now, but back then I would really struggle. I would struggle a lot with RSD, which is rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria, so something might happen. And so, for example, the way RSD works is that you, someone, may say something to you and you feel rejected. You know so there were certain times where my bosses would say something to me like, oh, what?
Speaker 1:You know, you haven't done this, and it might have been more because of my ADHD, which I didn't even know I had at that point, was stopping me, you know, and I was sort of finding that people who I thought were complete fucking idiots in the company I was working for we're getting promoted and all this. I'm like this person's just a snake, this person's not a leader, and like they don't give a fuck, you know, and it really that really started to piss me off type of thing. I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, if I want to, why don't you build your own company where you can be everything that people aren't being to you, type of thing, you know. So that was where I really started to go okay, well, what company am I going to build?
Speaker 1:I had no idea right, but I started to go to these events and that and got started to learn what I needed to be, to become the person I need to be, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Totally, but did you stay in your manager job for the company the manufacturing company while you figured this out, or were you like I need to change quit? I'm going to figure it out as I go.
Speaker 1:Well, the the so with the warehouse. I left there to go overseas and then when I got back I was doing like work training, so that was where I really started to go.
Speaker 1:Now, this is where I started to go. Now, this is where I want to build my own company, because that I was starting to, because warehousing, for example, is very it can be quite rough the way we talk, the way people talk to each other, how it can be very, very rough. But once I got into corporate, completely different. Once again I'm wearing like nice clothes, all of that type of stuff, so it's just a completely different environment. And then I was around people who were on big salaries and you know around multimillionaires and billionaires, some of them, you know.
Speaker 1:So I was getting that influence of like, okay, wow, maybe I could, it would be great to be someone like that. So that was where I started to go okay, let's look into this type of thing. But I was finding the company I was working for, that training company at that point just weren't giving me the opportunities and I was like I need to go find those opportunities myself. So that was where I started going to events, started to see people who were exceeding, doing motivational talks, all that. And then I went well, okay, I need to get rid of all of this to become what I want to become, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So you're now going to try and become sober after years and years and years of drinking and drugs, and you're going to try and start a business at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, pretty much yeah.
Speaker 2:Good for you Total life transformation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, the thing was I had a year. I got to a point with my training job that I just went stuff in. I'm having a year off, so I actually did some study then In that period I really got away from everyone. I was around. I don't think I was. I stopped using any drugs or anything like that at that point. And then I remember I stopped drinking for almost a year and it was. It was interesting to see my body change, how I felt all that.
Speaker 2:Was it hard? No, no it actually wasn't.
Speaker 1:It wasn't, it wasn't, but it's incredible. It was hard to get to that point. It was hard to get to that point of wanting to give up, because with alcohol it's and this is the thing one addiction goes from another addiction to another addiction. So you've got, say you've got. You know you smoke a lot of weed and take drugs, for example. You may give that up. And then you're like, okay, at least I've got alcohol. Now the thing is, alcohol is incredibly difficult to give up because it's everywhere. It's easy to get. It's not like you've got to go around and it's socially acceptable, it's allowed.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and everyone's like hey, let's go out, let's go out for dinner, so you'll have some drinks there, right. And then you know it's easy to just go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right. So you know, giving it up for a year, I had to really find, because this is the thing you start to, you're on your own a lot. So because if you don't want to drink, everyone else is drinking. Then you're on your own right and you've. I was trying to get away from all that. So for me, I actually went and started doing volunteer work with homeless people on the streets on the weekends. So instead of going to a pub and drinking, I was actually going and helping homeless people and just speaking to them, and all that instead of drinking. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:That's amazing. That's a wonderful. That definitely is better than cross addiction, Because that's what a lot of people right Like I. I know someone like tried to quit smoking and they they. Instead of having to smoke, they would drink a cup of orange juice and then they got addicted to orange juice. Yeah, you can get addicted to anything, but like you have to be careful. But you took your change and you, instead of giving yourself something else, you gave to someone else. Is what I'm hearing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Where did that idea?
Speaker 2:even come from.
Speaker 1:I think it was so what I so, what, so what I sort of found. When you tried to cut people out of your life, you and this was the thing I pretty much got to a point where I went fuck off, I don't want anything else to do with you. You know what I mean, cause they weren't the type of nice people but they just were all about themselves, you know. And you get to a point where no one then calls you because all of your life has been in that part, so you've got no friends, right. And I can tell you right now and I still struggle with this I actually struggle with like loneliness, you know, and it's when you're on your own a lot it can become bad. That's where you can start to pick up your drinking habits, all that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:And escape.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, exactly, and so I had no one. I'm like how the hell do I meet new people? And I thought about volunteering. But I thought, ah, back into my drinking days and I thought, ah, any fuckheads do like volunteering and stuff like that was my perception of people back in those days.
Speaker 1:But then I went in, started doing it. I'm like holy shit, these people are actually cool. You know what I mean. They're cool people and they drank alcohol. But they didn't go and like be like ah, you know what I mean. They were able to go out and have some dinner and maybe a little bit of wine and call it a night. You know what I mean. And yeah, and that was where I really started to go. Man, I should have done this way earlier.
Speaker 1:You know, so, yeah, that was sort of a bit of a change to be able to and that's the thing like, the people I hang out with now are completely and I tell a lot of people what I used to be like. They're like, man, I just can't see it in you and I'm like, really, do you know what I mean? Because they see this different side of me now and it's sort of like crazy. But, yeah, that was a big change and, yes, it was definitely hard to get to that point because it's everywhere, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's, it's everywhere, and I think a lot of people struggle, and I think a lot of people struggle with it in silence too. So hopefully someone hearing your story today might be doing some reflecting on themselves and feel inspired to do a similar kind of change or pivot in their own life when it comes to addiction. Do you have a healthier relationship with alcohol today, or are you sober?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, look I am yeah, I do have a healthy relationship with alcohol.
Speaker 1:Congratulations and yeah, and it was. And it blows my mind that I can get to this point now. And I think this is what, like I said, I had a big period off from drinking right and I found that when I came back to drinking not that I was wanting to get back to drinking, but when I started having some alcohol again I could never get back to the place that I used to be back when I was younger. So, for example, I would have beer after beer, I'd knock off like at least 12 beers every day. You know what I mean. If I had 12 beers now, I would probably be dead.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? I feel you know. I have two beers now and I'm sort of like, oh, I think that's enough. You know what I mean and, like you know, it's sort of like it's like an Olympic runner If you don't practice right yeah you're never going to be that.
Speaker 2:Your tolerance is back. But you're aware like you're good now, like you don't, I would like you don't need to get wasted, like you can just enjoy one or two and you're like that's good for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah like sometimes even now, like and this is the thing too like I go to lots of corporate business events and I can tell you what man corporate are wild. Some of the tech companies that I'm going to and that they've got like, yeah, they put on big open bar tabs and everyone's like yeah, do you want a?
Speaker 1:cocktail man, you know, and there's been sometimes where I've been there and like I'm like thinking man, I'm pretty drunk and people like are getting carried out of these places or being inappropriate and stuff like that, and I'm thinking man, I'm pretty clearheaded here. But you know what? I've started actually going to some events, having maybe two wines and then just having some non alcoholic beer and it's almost that like that placebo effect, because I'm holding something and it tastes like beer. I still feel like I'm in the zone and I'm drinking with everyone, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Totally, I wake up the next day feeling fine. Sometimes I literally just have a soda water and like a line wedge in like a short glass, because I feel more comfortable, like I just need to be holding something, like there's something about the holding a drink at a social gathering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm really hearing multiple pivot points in your story. Like I hear your girlfriend telling you that you need to make a change. I'm hearing it's hard to tell you like the moving home back home and the new job are. I should say sobriety is maybe another big change, for you is doing that. But one thing I would love to hear a little bit more of too is like I feel like perhaps your diagnosis when you actually got diagnosed with ADHD was probably another really big pivotal moment in your life, like when you got that, yeah, sort of, and I'll tell you it probably help if I describe the work I do now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's talk about that, because yeah, yeah, okay cool, because that would sort of like clarify why I got diagnosed, because if I wasn't doing the work I'm doing now, it would be like it wouldn't have happened. I don't think so. This was the thing. So I remember, remember, I've been talking about getting starting a business, right?
Speaker 1:And I remember when I first sort of was like what the hell am I going to do? I had no idea what type of business I wanted to do and I remember people going man, you need a niche. I'm like what the fuck is a niche?
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah, I'm like I'm going to do it on leadership and they're like, yeah, but what's the niche? I'm like leadership and I didn't realize that, like you know, that could be like leadership. Women in leadership is that niche. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Oh, I remember, like when I started my own, when I started my coaching business, I was like I'm a love coach and people were like great, what's your niche? And I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah actually so much harder than people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, totally, and this is the, this is. I think this is the beauty of especially when you start to get into that, you start to learn a hell of a lot more you know, and because you have to, you definitely have to. So you know, once I sort of you know. So I was sort of like okay, a niche, I want to do something, can leadership? And I was dyslexic at that time and I remember being in jobs thinking, man, I wish I could have like a business coach or a leadership coach who was dyslexic like me, who could help me, because a lot of the other business coaches and that just don't get me or they don't want, they're not open to my views, because I'm so open minded and it's like I don't want to be restricted to this, I want to just be able to do whatever, right. So I sort of started going okay, I'm going to build a leadership company for dyslexic people, right. But what I sort of found was was that there's just no money in it. There was no, there was no demand for people.
Speaker 1:Well, wasn't that people wanted to do it? But a lot of these people. I wanted to help for them to progress in their career or get the career that they wanted, but they didn't have a career at that point and they couldn't afford my services, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And then the top people who are already leaders in their company. You know they're sort of already doing all right. So it really didn't work. That really didn't work. But what I was finding was I was starting to go and talk at a lot of events. I was really building my personal brand. People were starting to see me as this dyslexic entrepreneur guy who would talk about dyslexia and what we need to do in the workplace. But what I found was that I started to pivot from dyslexia more into neurodiversity, because with a lot of neurodiversity or neurodivergent people a lot of people are it's very rare for someone to be just one thing. So say, for example, you're just dyslexic A lot of the time you're dyslexic ADHD, or you're autistic and ADHD, or you're Tourette and bipolar or whatever like that, Right. So I started to get more involved in the neurodiversity space because neurodiversity is more recognized, especially in corporate around DE and I initiatives. It's really still not even that recognized, but it's starting to get there.
Speaker 2:So when I'm in the conversation is starting to ramp up. You see a lot of I'm really big on to TikTok. I love the TikTok and like there's so many people coming out and talking about their ADHD, adhd, their neurodiversity and it's becoming more mainstream people getting diagnosed later in life and learning this. So having someone to go to, especially if you're an adult or you're a parent of a child with ADD, having somewhere to go would be massive official.
Speaker 1:Well, this was the thing I was when I first. So we're going back at least eight or nine years ago. I'd be going in to say these big corporate diversity events, right, and probably the back then. The big ones were like what is it? Gender was one of the big ones, I'm pretty sure cultural diversity, and there was another one I can't remember, I can't remember what it was, but those, there was some. There was a big three, right.
Speaker 1:And I remember going into these events nervous as because I'm thinking, okay, what's going on. And I go and I'd be like and I would be talking to some of the big banks and they're like, yeah, we've got this, this, this, this, this. I'm like I tell you what the next biggest thing is is going to be neurodiversity. And people would like look at me like, like, just weird and like blow me off, type of thing, and it was so intimidating. But I kept on going and saying, look, I do stuff around neurodiversity and man, the door just keeps getting smashed. My RSD was at an all time high because you just get door after door slammed in your face. Now, because neurodiversity is becoming such a big talked about thing, people want to want to learn about it now, because I was that one at that time when no one was speaking about it. All of these people are now coming back to me going, hey, will I remember meeting you this time? You're this guy and I'm like, yeah yeah, yeah, do you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So this was where I started to get. I'm really well known in the neurodiversity space, right, and, like I said, I'm connected with like world leading doctors and everything, and this is what blows me away. I was like this dude, this guy had big drug problems and stuff like that. Now I'm rubbing shoulders with like top leading doctors and psychologists in this field. I'm not even that, but I'm up there with those people. It's almost like imposter syndrome, because it's like man, I don't even feel like I should be here, type of thing.
Speaker 2:But hey, that's what they tell us entrepreneurs all the time is like get into spaces with people who are further ahead than you and learn to shut the fuck up. Sit there and listen to what they have to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Totally, totally. And it was, and this was where I was starting to be around people and people like oh yeah, I'm ADHC, I'm like, I'm just dyslexic. And then I was learning more about hey, look, you're more a lot of people. They usually say they've got a buddy, so you're either dyslexic, adhd or whatever. And, like I said, my friend, she came to me and I said and she's a leading doctor in this. And she's like look, hey, will I just read your book? Yeah, it definitely sounds like you're ADHD. Let's come in and get you tested. She did it for free for me because this caused like a flyer.
Speaker 2:Thank you, friend, that's really nice. Thank you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Your networks are everything. Your networks definitely pay off. And she's like, yeah, you're ADHD. And I'm just like, oh my god, that makes so much more sense now because a lot of the things I go through I haven't even really spoken about this. But, talking about addiction, I actually struggle with sex addiction as well. So with a lot of ADHDs we can sometimes be hypersexual because we've got that hyper type of thing. We're trying to search for that dopamine here. Or it can be the opposite, where you're hyposexual, where you don't want that at all or not much at all. So that made sense as well.
Speaker 2:It's like because I had been talking to her about that. Things are clicking into place.
Speaker 1:Totally, because I had been talking to her about that stuff. And she goes yeah, this is because of this, this is because of that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh my god, now it makes sense. You know what I mean. So it did make a lot of sense, but it doesn't change. I still do struggle with some things, but I'm able to be more vocal about it and go hang on, I struggle with this. Are we able to do it this way? Like with my business partners? They'll say, look, we need to do this. I'm like, look, are we able to look at it differently? Because they're really good. You know what I mean. So it definitely does help if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:It sounds like you were able, with that diagnosis, to see so much of your behaviors and understand more as why you showed up in the world the way you did or why you make certain decisions, and that can be immensely transformative for anybody, even if it's a medical diagnosis Like if you struggle with a pain and then you finally get the diagnosis it doesn't necessarily take the pain away, but it just adds context to so much of the things that have happened in your past and that is healing in and of itself. So we've gone through so many pivots in your life. You have changed and transformed and made really big, brave choices for yourself. I want to explore, I definitely want to know, how traveling changed you, how you think that trip, like if you were to have like, if you had to just give me a couple sentences of like, how that change of travel, that first pivot point, really changed things for you, what would you say?
Speaker 1:Well, I had to stand on my own two feet. If I'm going to put it into a simple thing, I had to learn fast how to stand on my own two feet, where back when I was in Australia, I had to rely too heavily on my parents. Now, going into my own business, I can't run to my parents. That would just be stupid. Now I'm able to go. Hang on. I've got to do this To get to this. I need to do this, I need to have this organized. So I need to have this in place, all of that type of stuff. So it really woke me up to there was actually a few things that it woke me up to.
Speaker 1:One when I was over in the UK I really learned that over in the UK they've got minimum wage and minimum wage is like really minimum I think it was like six pounds and it's so expensive over there, right, and I'm like you really need a decent job over there just to live.
Speaker 2:And financial intelligence, which you had mentioned, you struggled with at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, totally, and that was the thing I'd learned while I was traveling as well, and actually while I was traveling, this is a big thing that happened. So while I was traveling, it's quite expensive to be drinking every night when you're living in a hostel. I just didn't have that money and I was like, OK, what can I do Like I was speaking about before, when you've got one thing, you need to do something different to stop you from doing that one thing. So in this case, I was drinking and I was like, OK, I couldn't really read that well back then, but I remember when I was traveling well, when I was traveling, a lot of people would be talking about the books they had read and I'd be like man, I really love to read a book and I remember the Anthony Kedis from Red Hot Chili Peppers biography scar tissue.
Speaker 1:Everyone was reading that at that point and they're like, man, this happened and this happened. I'm like man, I want to read that book and I could really not read that well back in those days. And I remember grabbing the book and going, OK, let's try, let's try and make this a game that, when you get to a certain word that you don't know, instead of skipping, that, you just keep trying to word it out until you get it. So I'd be reading very slow and I love the storyline. So I was really intrigued with what was going on in the book and I'd get certain words I keep going over and then I'd get it. Then I could move on and before I knew it I was right in the book. I was excited to read the book. And then I finished the book and I was like holy shit Like.
Speaker 2:Did anyone see I read it? Yeah, I read the book. Yeah, yeah. That's exactly what I did.
Speaker 1:That's exactly because I was sharing a room with actually two Canadian girls right, and they were big readers. They were huge readers and I'm like reading books. I'm like oh my God, guys, I just finished this book. And they probably looked at me like oh yeah, cool. And I said you just don't know, I have never finished a book from front to back and I understand everything that's happened in the book.
Speaker 2:To me it's always just being words.
Speaker 1:I've been like what the fuck was that? Wow, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is really huge.
Speaker 1:So that that sorry you guys.
Speaker 2:No, I was just going to say so, like what I'm hearing is like traveling gave you a deep sense of independence and instilled a lot of independence and personal growth with finances. Picking up a book and reading it for the first time and being exposed to what you were really capable of doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that was probably one of the big. That's what. That was probably the biggest thing. I don't know where I'd be if I didn't go and travel for all that time and it did it. That gave me that confidence Like, oh my God, I just finished that book. Maybe I can do some study now. Maybe I can read some study and actually understand what I'm learning.
Speaker 2:Did you ever think at the time that you would write a book?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, never, never never.
Speaker 2:And yet here you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, people have said to me they've. People have said to me that, like, when I write stuff, they're like man, you've actually got a really creative, you're a very creative storyteller, you know. So you know.
Speaker 2:But in saying that I still don't get punctuation and all that I have no idea, I am the worst speller, worst grammar, like it's so infuriating.
Speaker 1:I do not get that shit eh and like. Yeah, yeah, totally I do not get that stuff, but yeah, I can do. I've done that and I probably will. I want to rewrite my book because when I wrote it a lot of things have changed, but there's a lot of cool stuff in it. So I actually want to rewrite it and probably bring it out as an audio book as well. Yeah, probably more until we get to my company, because I'm just so busy with my company at the moment.
Speaker 2:But one day that's yeah, one day.
Speaker 1:But to tell you the truth, in a way, with my company, like I said, I thought I'd then have the confidence to go and maybe do some study them. This was sort of what then happened with my company, right? Because I went and did study, right. Yeah, it's like we're talking about neurodiversity in the workplace. What I've sort of found especially say it's high school and that people just didn't understand what neurodiversity was back in those days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thing, is going into tertiary education and I don't know what it's. It's a cool dude. Is a cool tertiary education in Canada.
Speaker 2:So that's like higher education.
Speaker 1:So once you finish high school, you'll go to college or university or vocational education training or whatever it's called right, and this is more based around workplace training and stuff like that. What I found, especially working in that industry then and especially going and doing some extra learning, and that because I can tell you right now I've got that many qualifications. Now they're hanging out of my ass.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and. But what I found was that once again, we're at that same point. A lot of these universities and colleges had no understanding of how to best support neurodivergent people. They have no idea. So a lot of these neurodivergent people are now going back through this torment of what they experienced at school because there's no support or understanding. And a lot of these colleges and universities they want to help but they have no idea what to do.
Speaker 2:The system especially universities are not set up for neurodivergence. Like the idea of sitting in a lecture so far back and listening and having to take notes quickly, like for me. Like I couldn't do that. I could take notes from my brain, just that I would not be able to absorb any information. That's just not how my brain works. Like I remember I my my diagnosis allowed me to give special like two sided paper. So like I have a teacher assign someone in the class to who took notes to take notes for me and there'd be a sheet underneath that they could rip off and give to me afterwards because my brain could not process the information fast enough for me to be able to get it down on paper. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Like there has to be adaptable things if neurodivergent people are going to feel there's technology now that can actually you can put it there. It will record everything that the lecture is saying and then put that into into note form. But this is the thing these universities they don't know all the.
Speaker 2:They don't know what text available.
Speaker 1:They don't have any idea. So this is a big thing that we're trying to do. We're actually building a platform, so like a website type of thing, where neurodivergent people will be able to go there and we'll actually show you all the courses, all the schools, all that, and it might be, like, I know, a diploma of management, a diploma of leadership and masters in something from this college or university, whatever. And then what we're going to do, we're going to have, we're going to endorse colleges or universities who actually have neurodiversity training and understanding, which we will provide.
Speaker 2:Wonderful.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. So say if you're looking for a place and you're like man, I want to go to a place that understands my ADHD.
Speaker 2:And will support me.
Speaker 1:So you could type in ADHD and type in the what you're looking to study and then it will come up with all the colleges that will actually say, okay, we understand this, we can do this, all of that.
Speaker 2:Then you can go great.
Speaker 1:I'm going to sign up to that one because I know, because they will tell you that they support you and then the university will, but then you'll get that and they have no idea, because they want your money, you know. But we want to connect people with the right ones, right, so you're able to make a better decision based on the support you're going to get, type of thing.
Speaker 1:And if you if you sign up through our website, we're going to give all of any, all neurodivergent people. We're just going to give them free training on to help them to develop in their career and all that type of stuff, because for free, for free, yeah, for free.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that's incredible. Are the schools that you're are you in are so sorry. I love that you're making it easily accessible for people who are struggling to access help and training that they desire. Are there schools that you're currently in connection with? All in Australia at the moment?
Speaker 1:Yes, but we are wanting to design it, so be international.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? Yeah, let me know. When you're here in Canada, you better send me a message. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So like the thing is, I'm pretty sure in Canada you've got a very, a large population of international students, so you have it here in Australia as well. So from India, asia, places like that, in those countries they get no support at all. It's sort of taboo to think of talk about neurodiversity there. So there's big money in the international student market and what we really want to look at is instead of, you know, because we're going to work off some referral type of fees type of thing which works out to be like within like thousands of dollars. So instead of using that money to go, okay, let's put that in our pocket. I'll put some of it in my pocket, yeah, but we want to use a lot of that and put back into the student, to help them and get, give them a lot of training which they'll never get in their countries as well. So this is a big thing we want to do. Plus also to we want to encourage. They say I don't know what the universities will say. University of Toronto.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what it's called. Okay, cool. So let's say the.
Speaker 1:University of Toronto has become an endorsed by with with gone. Man, they tick all the boxes. We're going to endorse that university now. Then all these people are able to go. Oh man, I want to go there because they support 80 HD and OCD, for example, I'm going to go there. Then, what we want to try to do Hopefully the other universities will go man, the University of Toronto is getting all of these people. They look great because they're seen as like they're endorsed by neurodiversity Academy. Man, we should be doing that as well. Let's do an automates.
Speaker 1:We want to try to see that will open up the doors to these other ones starting to go fuck man, we better get our shit together, because they're getting thousands of students overseas, and from overseas as well, and we're missing out on this market. You know what I mean. So we really want to see if that will try and help people to change their mindset into how they actually run a university or college.
Speaker 2:Well as one neurodiverse person to you. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing.
Speaker 1:I wish I had.
Speaker 2:I got a lot of really great support. My parents were really good at getting me support, so that served me really well, but I think helping those who didn't have the kind of support that I did, I think it is so important and so thank you for committing yourself to helping this community of people. My last question for you, or second last question what do you hope that people listening take away from your story today?
Speaker 1:Um, look, I think a big thing is that, regardless of what you've come against, I think that with hard work you know it's not easy you can achieve your goals. Like I said, I'm nowhere near where I need to be yet. I'm definitely a lot closer than what I was. You definitely can reach your goals if you work hard towards them. Plus also to I think a big thing is is being yourself, like you spoke about earlier when we were talking about finding your niche and all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Right, I think in that period there, right, you're getting told so much information from so many different people and some of that advice sometimes isn't the correct or the right advice for you. I used to wear suits and have my head shake, but I found that that's just not me. I'm this chilled out guy who likes wearing, you know, jeans, skate shoes or hoodie or a shirt in summer Time, my hair back, you know that's me, and until I found that in me, I was wearing suits and trying to be this person, I wasn't. So when you can be yourself, that's when the magic really starts to happen, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm hearing like self trust. And that like if something doesn't feel right for you, don't take that as evidence that something's wrong with you. Just take it as evidence is that thing isn't meant for you, because you are not broken, like we're not broken as human beings. Society is very broken. We are humans, we're humans, follow the soul, and so if anyone here has been listening and they want to connect with you, they want to learn from you where should they go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, there's probably a lot of things to check me out. Connect with me on LinkedIn, so will wheeler. You'll probably be able to find me there. And if you do, maybe write me a short, because I get so many people connecting with me, especially like sales people and stuff like that, so I don't connect with people if I don't really know who they are. So if you send me like a personal invite, just say, hey, look, I listened to you on this podcast and I'll know why I need to connect with you. Then you can also check out my company's website, so neurodiversityacademycom. Or you could go to our podcast, which is the open hearted societycom. It's actually called the open hearted podcast, but that's a whole nother thing. We're actually trying to develop a dating and friendship app, so that's a whole nother thing I'm working on, for a lot of urgent people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so that's a whole nother project, but if you go on to those websites, you'll be able to connect with all my social media platforms and work yeah, all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:So that's amazing and I'll just have those links all easily located in the episode description so anyone listening you don't have to guess or look around. You can just go to the episode descriptions, click away and connect with will immediately. Thank you so much for this conversation. You've given us so much information and a peek into your life with so much depth, like you really allowed us to take this journey with you, and I'm really grateful for your vulnerability because I know at least for me, it's been really nice to connect with someone who gets it, if that makes sense, who gets it, and I know that there will be many other people who this will really resonate with. So thank you.
Speaker 1:Not a problem. I think talking about stuff is key, do you? Know how to be hard and embarrassing, but that's where we can open up and change. So thank you for having me, and I really hope you'll come on to my podcast as well.
Speaker 2:I would be absolutely honored. Well, let's do that.
Speaker 1:Let's lock that down.
Speaker 2:Virtual virtual handshake.
Speaker 1:Exactly, thank you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider liking, subscribing and letting us know your thoughts in the comments below. It truly means the world to me to hear from you. New episodes will be available every Saturday, both on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts, and if you would like to learn more about my work as a coach today's guest or have a story that you would like to share on the pivot point, check out the episode description for more information. Now time for the legal stuff. This podcast is presented to you solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I may be a professionally certified coach myself, but hosting a podcast is not coaching. This podcast should not be used in substitution of working with a licensed therapist, doctor, coach or other qualified professionals. Copy that Amazing. See you on the next episode. Nothing but love, yes.